D&D Mafia Fallout Thread

[BlizzardeyeWonder]

Thanks for playing my first mafia game everyone! In hindsight a lot of setup issues came up because this was originally a 16-person setup with like. actual townies. But anyway, Recordkeeping Time.

Role PMs

[+] MurderWeasel

Welcome MurderWeasel. You are a Bard.

A wandering entertainer by day, adventurer for hire by night, charming all the time - mostly. Unfortunately, your normal schedule has been interrupted by recent events in Redglade. It's no big issue for you though, we all love a good mystery story.

As the Town Bard (Fruit Vendor), you may target a player at night. That player will be informed that they heard music outside their window, but not that you targeted them.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

[+] General Goose

Welcome, General Goose. You are a Cleric.

A servant of the god of the sun and life, who is also part of the adventurer's guild. Though the shadowy forces at play in the town of Redglade aren't your usual area of expertise, not much use for Turn Undead here, you still traveled here to lend your divine aid and protection. It's rarely not needed, it seems.

Sick and tired of your party constantly running off and potentially getting themselves killed, you are the Town Jailer. At night, you may target a player to protect them from a kill, while at the same time roleblocking them.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

[+] Zetsu

Welcome Zetsu. You are a Druid.

You live on the outskirts of town, offering advice and remedies to those who come to you based on your extensive knowledge of the magical wildlife of Redglade. However, recently shadowy forces wielding dark magics have fallen upon the town, tainting both nature and the community.

As a self-appointed protector of both those things, you have made it your duty to hunt down the source of this vile corruption. You are the Town Gunsmith. You may target a player at night, and will be informed if they have shadow magic with a PM in the form of Shadow Magic/No Shadow Magic/No Result (if your investigation does not go through). Do note that some members of the town may be users of shadow magic, as well as the scumteam.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

[+] CondorTalon

Welcome CondorTalon. You are a Fighter.

You've had your fair share of successful quests under your belt, and when the adventurer's guild asked you to go to Redglade and uncover the source of the shadowy happenings around town, you figured it wouldn't be anything you haven't seen before.

You are the Town Bodyguard. At night, you may target a player to protect them from a kill. If that player is targeted by a kill that night, you will die instead of them.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

[+] Deamon

Welcome Deamon. You are a Monk.

A member of a monastery close to Redglade, you often visit the town to help deal with various threats it faces. Unfortunately, this time the danger is a bit too nebulous for your martial prowess to be of much use. However, you do know something that could be of utmost importance. Many years ago, a woman visited the monastery with her child, asking your elders to help them - it was then that they discovered the child was a sorcerer, but one of Shadowfell descent. The child has since grown and become an adventurer, but in these times, it would be most unfortunate to be affiliated with shadow magic.

You are an Informed Townie. You know that there is a Town Sorcerer (Gunsmith Miller) in the game. Other than that, your only weapon is your vote.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

[+] randomness

Welcome Randomness. You are a Ranger.

You've traveled far and wide in your many years of adventuring, but the wilds surrounding Redglade will always be your home. Recently, you've temporarily left your adventuring party to return, hearing news of the shadowy forces that have taken root. With you, you bring a single Arrow of Truth, a magic item you found on your journey. It is an arrow that will smite those with evil intentions, but if used to try and harm an innocent person, the one who shot it will die instead. It's a measure for desperate times, for sure.

You are the Town One-Shot Desperado. Once in the game, during the day, you may declare a target by posting SHOOT: [TARGET] in the thread. If the target is scum-aligned, they will die. If not, they will live, but you will die instead. Either way, this will not end the day.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

[+] Emprexx Plush

Welcome Emprexx Plush. You are a Rogue.

You spent your childhood as an urchin in a big city, before being taken under the wing of the adventurer's guild, and turning the skills you learned on the streets towards a few slightly more legal endeavors. Unfortunately, the latest quest you took from the guild has landed you in Redglade, where a shadowy enterprise has put you - and most other adventurers - down as a target to be eliminated.

Though you shadowy magics do factor into your skillset, you figured using it offensively is not the smartest choice right now. You are the Town Thief. At night, you may target a player to steal from them, and you will receive a PM describing what you stole, which will relate to the target's role flavour.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

[+] dmboogie

Welcome dmboogie. You are a Sorcerer.

Since you were young, strange things have happened around you - plants wilt, milk spoils, things like that. Your family discovered this was the result of uncontrolled, inborn shadow magic. You have since learned to control your abilities, and have recently taken up adventuring. Unfortunately, before you could set out to the city and join the adventurer's guild, other, more malevolent forces have taken root in your town of residence, Redglade.

Despite your good intentions, it would be easy for you to be lumped in with them. You are the Town Gunsmith Miller. If investigated, you will return a result of having the same flavour as scum. Your only weapon is your vote.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

[+] Fenris

Welcome, Fenris. You are a Wizard.

You traveled to Redglade to research the interesting and potentially magically potent flora of the surrounding wilds, only to find yourself embroiled in a deadly plot, with the next caravan out of town being delayed for gods-know-how-long. Just your luck, huh?

Though you're not well-versed in evocation, your divination magic and mind for research still come in handy. You are the Town Watcher. At night, you may target a player, and assuming your action goes through, learn which players targeted them at night via PM.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

[+] Jace

Welcome Jace. You are a Barbarian.

You were a member of the adventurer's guild, but often found yourself pushed to the side. When a party needs someone to kill things? They'd choose the Fighter over you out of fear of being harmed during your battle frenzy. When they need an expert on the wilds? They'd just bring along the more experienced (and sociable) Ranger. You thought maybe, you'd get your lucky break during your quest in Redglade. In a way, you did.

You are the Shadow Cult Strongman. Your teammates are decoy73 (Shadow Cult Paladin, Leader) and MK (Shadow Cult Warlock, Ninja). At night, you may talk privately (quicktopic here), and choose a target to kill. Once in the game, if you are carrying out the nightkill, you may choose to strengthen your kill, making it pierce all protections. The nightkill will go through the Barbarian unless they are dead, at which point it will instead go through the Warlock. If both of them are dead, it will go through the Paladin.

You win when the Shadow Cult controls the vote (when Shadow Cult members make up 50% of the remaining players in the game).

[+] decoy73

Welcome decoy73. You are a Paladin.

Some may call you an oathbreaker, a blackguard, simply not a true paladin. But you swore your oath to the god of conquest and deceit, and have never strayed from it since. And isn't that what a proper paladin does? In any case, your god and his Shadowfell followers have turned their eyes on the town of Redglade, and the magic that suffuses it. You have been entrusted with the task of bringing it under control in the name of your god, and eliminating any threats to that goal - like the many adventurers that are currently in town.

You are the Shadow Cult Leader. Your teammates are MK (Shadow Cult Warlock, Ninja) and Jace (Shadow Cult Barbarian, Strongman). At night, you may talk privately (quicktopic here), and choose a target to kill. As the leader, you have the final say on the target. The nightkill will go through the Barbarian unless they are dead, at which point it will instead go through the Warlock. If both of them are dead, it will go through the Paladin.

You win when the Shadow Cult controls the vote (when Shadow Cult members make up 50% of the remaining players in the game).

[+] MK Kilmarnock

Welcome MK Kilmarnock. You are a Warlock.

You have always been fascinated by the Shadowfell, enough so to make a pact with an ancient and powerful shadow dragon for a portion of his power. Recently, your patron has directed you to Redglade, where a servant of his god works to bring the town, and the magic that pervades it, under the Shadowfell's domain.

You are the Shadow Cult Ninja. Your teammates are decoy73 (Shadow Cult Paladin, Leader) and Jace (Shadow Cult Barbarian, Strongman). At night, you may talk privately (quicktopic here), and choose a target to kill. Once in the game, if you are carrying out the nightkill, you may choose to use shadow magic to make yourself untraceable. Investigations by trackers, watchers, etc., will return no results, as if roleblocked. The nightkill will go through the Barbarian unless they are dead, at which point it will instead go through the Warlock. If both of them are dead, it will go through the Paladin.

You win when the Shadow Cult controls the vote (when Shadow Cult members make up 50% of the remaining players in the game).

[+] Action Log

Day 1
Goose Lynched

Night 1
Fenris Watches Toben (sees Paige)
Condor Protects Zetsu (is hit by Mafia)
Emprexx Steals From Toben (see Thief Results: Bard)
Toben Serenades Zetsu (being watched by Fenris)
Zetsu Investigates MK (Shadow Magic. as well as notif about Toben's music playing. protected by Condor)
Jace Attacks Zetsu (Hits Condor instead, Condor dies)

Day 2
Ricky Shot (by Randomness)
Decoy Lynched

Night 2
Paige Steals From Jace (see Thief Results: Barbarian)
Fenris Watches Zetsu (Sees no visitors)
Toben Serenades Boogie
Zetsu Investigates Jace (Shadow Magic. being watched by Fenris)
Jace Attacks Toben (he ded)

[+] Possible Thief Results

Barbarian: A necklace with bear's teeth hanging from it, engraved with runes associated with battle.
Bard: A piece of parchment with scribbled music notation for a song labeled "Waltz of the Myconoids".
Cleric: The holy symbol of a god of the sun and life, a golden disc with nested circles engraved in it.
Druid: A bundle of dried herbs (associated with a folk ward against evil magic) tied to a dowsing rod.
Fighter: A scabbard for a longsword, with the only decoration being a bronze lion's head at the top.
Monk: A set of brass knuckles, linked by a strip of cloth with a kirin embroidered on it.
Paladin: The holy symbol of a god of conquest, a sword dividing two broken halves of a shield.
Ranger: An arrow with an elvish prayer for justice engraved in the shaft.
Sorcerer: A glass orb full of black smoke, wrapped in thick cloth that had abjuration glyphs on it.
Warlock: A torn-off piece of parchment that has part of the instructions for an invisibility spell.
Wizard: A page of a spellbook with meticulous handwriting, detailing experiments with the scry spell.

I think the biggest thing that sorta happened with this setup is that it was really easy to confirm quite a few of the town roles. Probably also should have given Mafia a roleblocker. Hell, even adding a fourth mafioso and have eight townies instead maybe? Anyway that concludes the campaign epilogue. Deadchat is here if you wanna see it.

[Emprexx Plush]

Honestly I think this game was well-balanced roles side; the only people we could well and truly confirm as town were The Druid and The Ranger, and they were both loaded with pitfalls between the harsh desperado conditions and the false positives on gunsmith for The Sorcerer and The Rogue. What most imbalanced this game was 2/3 scum members being totally inactive due to RL circumstances; it would have been much tougher if the whole squad was about to push claims, there were credible cases to be made against most of town.

[Deamon]

[Zetsu]

Thanks Blizz for the game! It was a good time, and I loved the things you did with flavor this game.

Wow, okay. Make that two scum out for IRL circumstances, and another with migraines. Combined with me chancing upon the ninja with my N1 investigation, scum were really unlucky this game.

Q: Would rogue have investigated as having shadow magic for me?

Thoughts on balance: I agree that this wasn't really an imbalanced game, rolewise-- the roles felt mostly fine, to me. However, some non-role things about the setup might've messed scum up even if they hadn't all been hit with irl things. The main things that stood out to me were safeclaims, and the way the kill mechanic worked for scum.

Safclaims: Basically what allowed so many townies to come up looking soft-confirmed as town was that there were a lot of very specific flavor things in role PM's that would be rather difficult for scum to fake without fairly detailed safeclaims (for example: paige and boogie both became soft-confirmed for me the moment they talked about having shadow magic in their role PM's). Having some role safeclaims to hide behind might have really helped with that (for example, a safeclaim which has shadow magic capabilities). Town's biggest tool this game was how many soft-confirmed townies we could get by day 2: assuming a massclaim, i'm conf-town, random's conf-town, if i investigated a townie we add another person to the townblock (and if not even better), paige and boogie are soft-conf-town to me (and im conf-town as gunsmith so the instant i roleclaim, paige and boogie are soft-conf-town to everybody), and mw's soft-conf-town (scum fruit vendor's *possible* i guess, but rare). That's a 5-6 person townblock on day 2, which is pretty goddamn hard to surmount, and the only real way to throw a wrench in that is by killing me N1 (which almost happened despite the fact that I spent most of this game courting a mislynch!). Again, scum safeclaims would've cut this down to a 3-4 person townblock, which would've been more reasonable to deal with.

Nightkill Mechanics: For the last point, forcing the kill to go through barbarian and then go through ninja restricts scum flexibility quite a lot--they can never use the ninja ability until barb is dead, so two members of mafia are, effectively, goons (unless shadow cult leader as a role has actual abilities...?). Letting them choose who makes the kill also just gives more agency and feels nicer--I like having meaningful choices to make when I'm scum! Other than that, adding a roleblocker, buffing the ninja to be permanently active, or both could've been nice things for scum. I mean, it wouldn't have mattered in this game, almost certainly. But. In theory.

[BlizzardeyeWonder]

Yeah, I agree with you on basically everything you said. Wasn't sure how to deal with safeclaims, though obviously I could have gone with either a) subclasses that didn't involve shadow magic or b) what Zetsu said. I probably should have given scum free reign on who to choose to send the nightkill, I'll admit a portion of this setup is based on PMMM mafia which had a similar setup for scum. Don't remember why I thought it was a good idea though.

[BlizzardeyeWonder]

Also yes Rogue would have investigated as having shadow magic

[Zetsu]

i have no idea what im talking about when it comes to setup, really, so take everything i say with a grain of salt xD

[Jace]

Sorry guys I took on additional responsibilities at work so I have no time during work to post anymore which is when I did most of my mafia playing since I am always at work. I wanted to take part but I was in a better position to when signups were running than when the game started (especially since like I said before, I hadn't been active on the board so I didn't even realise the game had started until a day or two after it did). I tried to get active but I got overwhelmed by the conversation moving without me that I had no idea what to say and not enough time to read through everything over and over until I understood what we were talking about. And having no time except after work when exhausted and desperate for rest. Sorry fam.

[Emprexx Plush]

I don't think Boogie and I were really confirmed Town once you claimed; we could have been the safeclaims you were talking about, which I think would have been an argument under better circumstances. I was ready to go in on Dea and Fen pretty hard, with some side suspicion to Boogie. It's also possible that ass gun smith you hit me early on and flip results, and when I flip town after the lunch you're the automatic next target. We were very fortunate with how events played out, I think to large degree because the game was small and nobody really has the energy right now to chase tails.

[Zetsu]

Boogie's confirmed by Deamon, though, and is 100% conf-town if Dea flips at any point (I can see how you could be mislynched, though).

Hitting you with gunsmith is possible, yes; if that had happened, then the best case scenario is that you claim before i reveal my result while under no pressure, and thus your claim is more believable; worst case scenario is that you claim after i reveal my result, in which case there's a very good chance you'll be mislynched. I don't see myself getting mislynchd off of that, though, unless you neglect to tell us that you have shadow magic in your role pm.

[Fenris]

i take off my robe and wizard hat

[randomness]

Heavy PR games tend to be swingy, and I feel how Night 1 shook out really affected things, because it was really convenient for town that all eyes were on Zetsu and Toben, allowing for most of the claims to cover each other nicely. While there's a lot of potential for soft-claims in this game, if it wasn't for the overlapping claims and scum being quiet, I don't think the town block would have been nearly as strong as it was. There was definitely a lot of room for scum to make the claims confusing in a high power role game, like claiming bus driver or something.

[Emprexx Plush]

I could not tell you though! It's a throwaway line in my PM; just as easy for a player in my position to miss the shadow magic as it is to see a humanish portrait and assume you're human, which we saw last game spiral into infinite chaos

[MK Kilmarnock]

Mafia didn't stand a chance.

No fakeclaims, game is busted open by roleclaims, extremely PR heavy for town. That's before factoring in I was effectively the only scum member playing.

[MK Kilmarnock]

Had a jolly vent about it in chat to get it off my chest. But yes, this was tipped HEAVILY in the favor of town, please don't pretend anything different. But as I just sent to Blizzard, no criticism is good if you can't be constructive about it, so I do have some things I think could have improved this game a lot.

Fewer power roles on town. Town had:

• Two investigative roles (watcher and gunsmith. Three, if you count flavor cop)
• A jailer, absurdly powerful in their own right.
• A bodyguard, giving town two means to protect their confirmed townies. Speaking of which...
• Effectively a confirmed townie in the form of bard, easily confirmable by anybody he targets.
• A miller whose downside is immediately canceled out by informed townie, rendering one or even both as two more confirmed townies
• And a desperado, who is either an unstoppable, unmitigatable kill by the mafia or an extra confirmed townie.

Versus scum, which had:

• One strongman kill
• One untraceable kill

And they had to be used in a specific order, i.e. scum can only have one power available to them at a time. The cult leader's PM doesn't even say they're investigate immune, but even if they are it's hardly a mitigating factor with everything else I've managed to detail.

So, how to fix it:

1. Remove the pecking order restriction on scum. Give scum the option to select the ability to eliminate a high-profile target early on without worry of protection, OR to be untraceable. Being forced into canceling out one person at a time
2. who you can't even choose was awful.
3. Give scum an investigative role. Give them an option to see who the high-profile targets are without necessitating the mass-claim from town to see who's who (which breaks the game anyway, we'll get to that).
4. Randomize which classes are scum. Notify that
5. Give scum safeclaims.
6. Change desperado to one or two shot vig.
7. Change flavorcop, informed townie and bard to vanilla town.
8. Change jailer to doctor. Not roleblocker as town has too much investigative power and scum has too few abilities to cope, they don't need more ways to do absolutely nothing during a night. Doctor gives the piercing kill more meaning as there are now two roles countered by it, instead of the jailer countering it instead (by targeting either the shooter or the victim).

These are all potential fixes, but a bigger issue is the few choices of classes that you actually have to pick from, which is one of the many things that let the mass-claim be so powerful in the first place (and probably why scum didn't have fakeclaims). One potential fix for this is, with the randomized classes in place, have the fakeclaims be POWERS instead of classes. Could be two powers and 'vanilla townie' if you're going to put two/three VTs in play, which would let a VT claim be decent for once given the unusually low number of them.

But yeah. As is, this game was virtually impossible to lose for town, and this is all before considering the bad luck that was scumteam being completely gimped by player involvement (or lack thereof). With this particular setup and how all the roles played off each other, you could get 2/3rds of townies to be confirmed more or less by day two which is exactly what you did. It would have taken several days of MONUMENTAL misplays and being asleep at the wheel for this to be anything approaching winnable by even the best scumteams on this site.