Bad Girls: A Q&A With SOTF's Iconic Female Villains

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Bad Girls: A Q&A With SOTF's Iconic Female Villains
An audio transcript for the hearing impaired

Natasha Flores: Good morning, SurviveTheCon XIV, and happy Valentine's Day to all of you. Thanks for coming out for this panel, especially all of you standing in the back. I know we're all really eager to get started, so I'll get the introductions out of the way as quick as I can. This is "Bad Girls: A Q&A With SOTF's Iconic Female Villains," and I'll be moderating. I'm Natasha Flores, and I write a column for The Danger Zone called "Femme Fatales," exploring the female villains of each season as the game develops. Last year marked the fifth anniversary of that column.

I'm so excited by the wonderful panel we've got today. Some of these women I've written about in the past, and some of them helped inspire me to start my column. When I first proposed this panel to con staff, we didn't actually know if we'd be able to fill it, but here we are. I know most of you probably know most of them already, but let's show some love properly. Joining me today are half a dozen of SOTF's most infamous leading ladies. From right to left beside me, we have:

Season Thirty-Nine's Abby Afolayan!

Abby: [Exaggerated wave]

Natasha: Season Fifty-Eight's Adriana Elliot!

Adriana: Hello to all the bad bitches in the house!

Natasha: Season Sixty-Six's Jewel Evans:

Jewel: A pleasure to be here.

Natasha: Season Forty-Five's Ivy Jain!

Ivy: [Smiles and blows a kiss to the crowd]

Natasha: Season Thirty's Daphne Rivers!

Daphne: [Thumbs up]

Natasha: And Season Twenty's Daisy Robinson!

Daisy: [Pulls on her shirt] Get 20% off with my code: BADGIRL!

Natasha: Thanks again for being here today. Let's give these ladies a hand.

[Audience applauds]

Natasha: Now, let's jump right into it. This panel focuses on villains, meaning each of you has accepted that label by coming here today. Do you think, in the context of SOTF, that being a "villain" is a bad thing? Oh, and we’ll keep the order pretty informal here—whoever wants to can start.

Daphne: No. It’s not bad in itself. There are different kinds of villains. People do ‘villainous’ things for different reasons. For the girls here, we’re villains, but only because we set our priorities and put ourselves at the top.We did ‘bad’ things for our own sakes, and that’s what the game is about.

Adriana: I guess it depends on the definition of “villain” and how you’re presented. I was a villain ‘cause I wore all-black in the Nevada desert and killed people before they could kill me. It also depends heavily on the announcement flavor, if Dahnke or Daggers or whoever really wants to screw you over they can make things harder for you. I guess it depends on the frequency and context of kills to say whether or not it’s a bad thing to be a villain.

Jewel: I mean, personally, I think it's more about the definition of "bad." Did I, did we, do some stuff that society finds immoral? Sure. But without someone to do that, there is no show. There is no movement, no momentum. No deaths, except for idiots falling off rotting piers. The announcements and weapons and collars set the stage for the game, but it's the villains who make it run. We're the proactive forces, and it's a comparatively thankless job, because everyone on the sidelines is rooting for us to die even as they enjoy the fruits of our actions.

Abby: Let me let you in on a little secret: it all depends on how you’re framed. I don’t think I actually saw myself as a villain, and only found out when the game ended and saw how they were selling me. If things went even a little differently, I might have been seen as a survivor or even a hero. Who knows? [Shrugs dramatically, laughs again] Anyways, my best advice to any new winners who get this label? Work it. Villains get a lot of attention.

Ivy: I’ll tell you what. I don’t think I did “good” things, but I’m here because I did what I did and a bunch of other people aren’t here because they couldn’t cut it doing what I did. So for me, no, it wasn’t bad in the long run. I’ve been a movie villain too, and that’s different. The bad guys in movies are bad because being bad feels good; we’re the “bad guys” from SOTF because we decided we’d be better winners than everyone else, like Daphne said. Maybe that’s selfish, but we’re here because you wanted us to do that, and it worked for us.

Daisy: In game, yeah. I think if you just start killing left and right, like Jewel or Karen—no offense by the way [pointing to Jewel]—you are putting a target on your back. Like, if you are always on the announcements and it’s like “Bad Girl #3 killed #1, #2, and #4 by setting them on fire,” well, people are going to go for you, or shoot first and ask questions never. Outside of the whole game though, I think villains have better odds of making it big. It’s easy to market. I have shirts of me with a baseball bat whacking Williametta’s teeth out. Can the guy who won before me without killing anyone say that? I don’t know.

Natasha: Very interesting. Before we go further, let's look at it from the other side. What do you think of the so-called “heroes” of SOTF?

Abby: You know… before I was on the show I usually found them boring. I was more of a survivor and villain gal, right? When I heard the word “hero” in SOTF contexts, it usually translated to: [Speaking in exaggerated voice] “Oh, I’m Parker! Let me hide behind my friends!” [Resumes normal tone, cracks up again] Yeah, that. But, nowadays, after winning a version and watching from a different angle? I have huge intense respect for heroes. I’m not joking. [Suddenly stops smiling] You know Robert? In retrospect, he was a good man. I think it takes a lot of balls to be in SOTF and not think selfishly. Or hell, Lucy. She wasn’t a hero, far from it, but I only found out what the hell she was trying to do later, and… dang. Sometimes, you only look at stuff long after the fact and get it. In a sense, heroes have a certain kind of willpower other contestants don’t.

Ivy: Well, I didn’t meet any. [Laughs] Just watching them though, they’re mostly boring. A lot of them are just the same, and they usually try to do what Carlisle tried to do with his friends, and they die, or they flip like he did. Sometimes they’re smart or lucky and they take out a threat, but I mean… if the thing that makes you a hero is not wanting to play the game, what’s the point? You’re already there. If you really want to live, why not choose to be fun too?

Daisy: I don’t think… I met any either? Yeah, maybe like… Leah fits the anti-hero bill but even there, she shot girls she grew up with left and right, so that’s fishy. So, from personal experience, I don’t have any opinion. Though, I have been invited to podcasts where I discussed certain winners, and honestly, I find winners to be kinda boring. I don’t know, like you are in SOTF-TV, loosen up a little. You are either dying or getting famous, at least have fun in the process, jeez.

Adriana: I mean, in theory, heroes are great. When you’re in the game, especially if you’re a player or someone who has a high kill count, they fucking suck. I was lucky that I never really ran into “heroes” during my game and just dealt with confrontational assholes like Ivan and Clive. It all depends on what you consider heroic and where you draw a line that says “you do this one specific thing and you’re no longer a hero.” I mean, from my season at least, people considered Salvatore a hero and he still let Ashley experiment on Jude’s collar even though he knew there was a chance it would kill him. Granted, Jude was a prick who tried to beat Sal to death, so it depends on how justified you think Sal and Ash were. Really, you can write whole term papers about this sort of thing and still not be certain.

Daphne: I think “hero” is an external tag, same for villain really. Nobody in the game can truly say that they’re a hero. The viewers decide that. So maybe a hero is this or that or the other thing, but you can’t say that when you’re in there and you think “okay, but he’s gotta, they’ve gotta know that this can’t last.” And besides, Parker was a “hero” and he won, and he’s lame for most people. But it’s totally subjective and up to viewers.

Jewel: I'm not sure I agree with that. I think "hero" is a role you can court, and sure, sometimes the audience decides to treat someone like a saint but usually if somebody's regarded as moral that's due to their choices. I think those choices can be pretty selfish or destructive, though, situationally. You put your own morality and self-image over the safety of your friends by refusing to kill, and in seeking escape you're gambling just as much as by playing. If you really stick to your guns and understand the choice you're making and its consequences, more power to you, I respect that. But usually heroes are reactive instead of proactive and are just trying to feel better about their inability to compete.

Daphne: Yeah, that’s fair. And some people don’t think of it like that, they don’t think that far ahead. And I think that’s on them, whatever happens, they made that call, and then it’s up to other people to say what happened.

Natasha: While we're digging into differences and contrasts, now might be a good time to touch on the other defining trait of this panel: all of you are women. Did you feel that your gender resulted in any unique challenges, interactions, or opportunities you might not have encountered as a male?

Ivy: Maybe my friends wouldn’t all have turned out to be such bitches? [Laughs] Seriously though, maybe a little bit. People fell for the same trick a lot when I needed them to; if you’re a pretty girl and you start crying, four times out of five people are gonna fall for it and let their guard down. A guy pulls that, and you think he’s lame, or maybe unhinged. If anything, being a girl made it easier for me in my season.

Adriana: Well, aside from Clive calling me a cunt in endgame, no, it didn’t matter much. I was a girl with an automatic gun, so people saw the gun before they saw my skirt and my tits. I know my season had Jimmy and Nick make some misogynistic comments when they tried to rob Ashley’s group, but again, it comes down to who’s cast and who they run into. In a sense, I was judged as a person and not a girl during my game, and that was a bit refreshing in hindsight.

Jewel: I think maybe I got underestimated a couple times because of my gender? But more at the start. It's, I don't know, I ended up with enough of a reputation that that was what I was defined by more.

Daisy: People ask me really inappropriate questions. In game, it wasn’t a problem because we were all girls, but outside of it, people asked me how it was to get my period in the game and I was like… what do you think? My vagina is bleeding and I just murdered someone, do I look okay? The worst is when people go “were you like that because you were on your period?” Like… no, I was like that because bitch killed my sister and wouldn’t die.

Abby: I think I’ve talked about this before, but, like, I get weird stuff about my race and gender all the time? Like, from the fanbase. Sometimes I get sexuality shit as well, but it’s not as common. See, I think it’s like, white het dude is seen as, like, the default. But then if you’re… anything but that, right? They tend to other you in very strange ways. Some of it isn’t even harassment. It’s like, they bring up that I’m a black bi woman in some very weird contexts you just can’t help but go “huh.” I guess it’s like, if you’re a white dude you’re judged for you. If you’re not, it becomes a gender-sexuality-race thing. Othering, is what I’m saying. As for the show itself… weeeell, I actually didn’t get that much? I mean, Marcel was there, sure, but everyone was like, “dude, eff off,” even before the game started. By the way, in case you’re wondering: he wasn’t as terrible as the show made him look… he was probably at least three times as awful! [laughs at own joke] Otherwise, most people in my experience were… I guess they didn’t really think much about gender due to in-game stuff? …Wait, no actually. I kinda got called a “bitch” and shit a few times even from not-Marcel people. Gendered-slurs and all that.

Daphne: [Frowns] You could say that. People haven’t really given me credit for winning, or if they do they think I played “unfair,” somehow. There are guys who string along girls who get lauded as tactical geniuses, and I didn’t need to string someone along and I still pulled it off and I think people think that makes me worse.

Natasha: Springboarding off of that, do you think female contestants are held to a different standard than their male peers? It doesn't have to just be villains, either.

Abby: Oh booooy. I have a lot more to say about this. [Suddenly adopts a serious tone] Another word of advice: if you’re any kind of minority and you win, especially in a polarizing way, stay off social media, at least for a year. That’s not a joke. Creeps, weirdos, and dumb white fanboys can and will wreck your shit. I still get weird gender and racial crap. Like, people want to see feet pics and shit. If you do get this shit anyways, it’s good to tune it out. Don’t give them the platform, don’t encourage them. But yeah, minorities in general tend to get this really weird attitude, not even just from the fanbase. We need to have this big discussion about how the show itself occasionally tackles stuff like gender, race, sexuality, and related. But that’s a whooooooole other topic. [Waves arm]

Adriana: What? A national competition where women may be held to different and unjust standards compared to men? Who would even consider the idea?

In all seriousness, yes. Absolutely. Just the idea that we need a panel for female villains only should demonstrate that shit since I doubt this con would do an all-male villains panel. Granted, I have felt a lot of love for my gameplay even if more people diss it, so you just have to wade past the bullshit to find the people who respect your gameplay. I mean, I know some people who pretty much exclusively root for the girls on SOTF, so you just need to find the people who get you and your game.

Jewel: Okay, so, look at the costumes. Look at the proportion of slutty to cool. It's not like only girls get slutty costumes or only guys get cool or funny ones, but girls in general are encouraged to show a lot more skin. I mean, I don't hate it, just make the boys get naked too, okay?

Adriana: *raises a hand to the sky* Preach, girl.

Ivy: Oh yeah, definitely. They want the girls to be sexier but they call us sluts when we take our tops off on camera, all of that. It’s the same as in a lot of media—maybe even worse because sometimes they’ll be like, “What does your family think of that?” Man, you saw me kill people. I’m not worried that you also saw my butt. You’ve been paying to see my butt ever since I got on TV, anyway, so I think I still win. A lot of it is like Daphne said, though; half the stuff we get called out for, a guy could do and people would love him for it.

Daisy: Yeah, but it’s not better. Whether you are male or female, or whatever, when you are in TV, you don’t really get the freedom of saying “oh yeah, I’ll choose how they edit me.” Edits really make a huge difference, like if you want my livestream, I’m just like minding my own business running around trying not to get shot, but in the edits, I’m like actively seeking kills and like… they hinted me and Leah had sex or something? That was weird, we chatted about our pets. By the way, for the true fans: Peanut is still alive and I managed to get Leah’s turtle from her mom.

Daphne: I think we expect the female killers to be, like, the secondary players. You’ve got some big-name ladies who take high billing, but we always seem to point to the guys and say “oh, they’re the top threat,” and not the girls so much. Like, it’s never that simple. Also, I think people tend to sort girls into good or evil without a lot of consideration. Like they’ll take someone and say “oh, she’s so wholesome,” even if they kill a bunch, just ‘cause she’s pretty or likable, but they’ll also demonize someone if they don’t like her style.

Jewel: Oh, you know, I never quite thought of that, with the billing, but hits really close to home for me. Huh.

Natasha: Now that we've gotten some of the large-scale issues on the table, let's start getting a little more personal. I think everyone has a favorite contestant from past seasons. Can each of you give me yours, or one of yours if you can't pick just one, and tell me a little about how that favorite inspired your own play?

Ivy: I’ve got to give it to Kenny. [Pause for a few cheers from the crowd] Seriously, though. He was so smooth, and as the first winner to be called a villain, he was unforgettable. I don’t think I was, like, trying to channel him or anything, and we did stuff pretty differently in our games, but looking back he might have inspired me to take the path I did. He’s that cool in real life too, I’ve met him a few times at events and through work.

Daphne: I really liked Georgia. Season 14, yeah, but she really dealt with the total BS of it really well and I really liked a lot of her play. I wasn’t thinking about it much, I had my own stuff, but I think her ploy with the broken hatchet is super underrated. That was cool. She’s someone I’d like to hear from now, maybe get on her show. [She smirks at that]

Abby: I’ve already talked about Jared in other interviews, but let’s do it again. What can I say? I had a crush, and his season was relatively recent when mine happened, so everyone was, like, talking about him. I talk about reality TV for a living now, though, and let me tell you: I… actually liked Vahka. He’s like me if I had actually succeeded at being me, if that makes sense. [Laughs] Actually, I was more like Gene. Except, Gene actually got people?

Adriana: Believe it or not, I actually didn’t watch a lot of SOTF before I was cast, so I didn’t have a lot to draw back on once I was in Sandstone. I didn’t really start watching until after my season, which was a bit unfortunate considering that was a lousy period of SOTF. But since I have been following the show since my season, I would probably say girls like Karen Ruiz, and actually, I quite admired Jewel during her season, so it’s pretty dope I’m sharing a stage with one of my Season Sixty-Six faves. But yeah, really any of the bad bitches in black who played it super stealthy. Those ladies are my jam.

Jewel: I, um, thank you, Adriana. That actually means a lot to me.

Adriana: No prob. You’re awesome.

Jewel: I, um, well… Okay, for me, you know, I was a big fan of Zach Johnston from Sixty-Five. But there have been so many, too many, I could be here all day. But Zach was different, he was special, and if I had to pick a single favorite from all of SOTF it'd be him.

Daisy: This is a hard question because I did most of my watching after I won because I was invited to things and I didn’t want to look dumb. Honestly, I guess the Season Six winner. I heard of her before getting in the show because I remember… Who was it again? I think Maria, she was like, “Hey bitch, one of the twins killed the other lol, don’t do that to Macy,” and I was like… what?

Natasha: Thank you. Now, this one may sound similar, but we all know there are some nuances at play here. Who's your secret past-contestant crush? Or even your winner crush. Don't be shy. This is only being livestreamed and recorded for eternity on the internet.

Abby: I already mentioned this, buuuuut… Jared Clayton. No, no, don’t laugh! When I was a teensy weensy Abby I adored Clayton. It might explain a lot, come to think of it.

Ivy: Ooh, that’s a tough one. I had the benefit of forty-four seasons of pretty girls before mine, you know. Plus everybody here. *grins* Hope Schindler from 21 was a hottie, and we know she was into girls. Probably wouldn’t have liked me much with her player hunter thing and all, but whatever, she’s dead. If I had to pick a guy, I guess I’d choose Kenny again.

Daphne: Jared Clayton too. Scars are sexy, right? [Giggles] No, he’s cute and all, but he’s also a badass. The amount of shit he went through to live, that must have taken so much discipline. That’s impressive. He’s tough, and smart, and he was definitely the best mentor, both times. Love you Jare! [Tongue-in-cheek tone]

Daisy: This question is… [Laughs] so weird to me. I mean… it’s not a crush but when I saw a kid named Robinson I was rooting for him, you know. I was kinda sad when he died. Rest in pieces, Michael. When Vagina or whatever killed him, I was like… is this a joke?

Adriana: Um, during my game, I probably would have gone down on Ridley Morrigan.

Jewel: [Wolf whistles]

Adriana: I know, right. I know you guys may not remember him since he died early, but I kinda have a thing for guys who have that Pete Burns androgynous look and those wicked cheekbones. It just works for me. As for other winners, Ryan Arryn’s pretty fine to look at for the same reasons as Ridley, so I’d chose them.

Jewel: Okay, so like since I'm not gonna be the first one to go there, I'd've done things to Zach that I probably can't detail. Blown his mind. But okay, he's dead, I know. There are one or two winners I actually have my eye on. Corin is, you know, really cute. I don't think he likes me like that though. It's a shame. Elliot's actually pretty cute. People give him too much shit. I, uh, I actually had a whole list, you know, before the game. Like a top five thing. A whole lot of attractive people have won.

Natasha: And now that we're past that awkward and intrusive question about your inclinations, let's get to what the fans really want to know: what are your thoughts on seduction as a tactic? And do you have any personal experiences on the matter you'd like to share?

Ivy: Hey, if it works, it works. It’s just another thing that people give shit to girls for doing but call smart when guys do it. I never ended up having to do it myself, but if I’d had to, sure.

Adriana: I mean, if you got it, flaunt it. I’m a rail-thin pasty bitch, so no one would have been swayed by my charms, but if you do have it and you know the guy is dumb enough to fall for it, then more power to you, sister.

Jewel: Not gonna lie, I sort of regret not praying-mantising somebody. Like, there was no opportunity and it's easy to say it now but I don't think I necessarily would've even if I had had the chance. It's just, you know, when else in life will you get that sort of opportunity? Seduction can be useful in certain situations but most people are too smart to put fucking before, you know, staying alive. But I don't think it's that hard to catch someone, because teenagers are horny and dumb and you don't have to be a supermodel.

Abby: See... everyone always brings up that you’re distracted and maybe naked, but there’s another issue that doesn’t get brought up when discussing it. I’m just gonna say—[Deep inhale]—most people aren’t that suave. Like, I remember trying to flirt with Robert to get his gun, but he actually didn’t get it! He didn’t know what I was trying to do! [Shakes head, smiling] It’s just… after watching so many seasons, both for Reality Check and as a fan, plus being on it, I’ve realized it’s pretty much a dice roll. I’m genuinely surprised that it even has worked to begin with. Honestly, you’re better off with other ways of tricking people.

Daisy: We might have been at an all-girls high school, but lesbians? There weren’t that many of them. Obviously, when girls are put together and put in uniforms and sleeping in the same place, it’s bound to happen but like, anyways, no, seduction was never in my plan. Leah and I just became buddies, and I did watch her die but I’m pretty she would have done the same. I don’t think there’s room for love in SOTF, that’s that.

Daphne: [She looks kind of annoyed, and gets kind of emotional] I have no personal experience with seduction, and if you disagree then, well, you’ve probably never been seduced. I wasn’t, like, spreading my legs for just anyone I wanted help from. I wasn’t seducing anyone. I had a special relationship, what Ethan and I had, and I drew from that to keep us together and keep us going. If it were two best friends, or brothers, you’d never hear them get called “slutty” or “loose” or anything. If it works for someone, then do what you want if you think it’ll get what you want, but it wasn’t me.

Jewel: I mean, if it was two brothers banging? I’d call that something.

Abby: [At this point she can be seen laughing behind her hand]

Daphne: Well, you know what I mean. Stringing someone along and using them, emotionally or physically. I’m just...that’s something I get called on a lot, and it bothers me because I don’t think it’s a fair comparison. You know, you do what you can do to make what you want happen. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, but it does tend to get you labeled.

Natasha: Love is often paired with death, and all of you at least made an attempt to kill. So, for each of you, which of your kills was the hardest? And, Abby, let's go with: which of your attempts felt the most desperate for you?

Abby: Oh, I was about to ask, “what kills?” [Laughs] If it counts… trying to kill duct tape dude. Xavier. Yeah, that guy. Word of advice: don’t run up behind the wrestling team captain with a weapon, even if he’s unarmed. [Laughs again] I think it was the worst, because, like… aside from the whole “I was bound and gagged” thing, it was kinda in hindsight the first moment where I was like, “Well, maybe I suck?”

Daphne: Physically, Parvati was the closest that anyone came to killing me. I guess I got lucky, there. Ethan, you know, I had been preparing for it, so it was expected, but I don’t know how I did it. I made it look easier than it was, I guess.

Daisy: Agatha. Cordelia, we had a struggle but I kinda broke her neck so she was out of commission, but Agatha had a flamethrower and like…. What am I supposed to do against that? [Laugh] I still have scars on, like, 15% of my body because of that fight.

Ivy: [Thin smile] ...I don’t regret any of the kills that I got with my own two hands. The only hard thing was sometimes doing it physically, so I’ll give that one to Zack since he fucked me up beforehand and it took help to get rid of him.

Adriana: Hardest emotionally or hardest in, like, video game terms? Emotionally, I guess Bridget since first kills seem to be the hardest and that girl didn’t even do shit to deserve her death. Difficulty-wise, probably Ivan cause I had to kill that fucker with a rolled ankle on a mini-golf course. That’s a recipe for disaster, so I’m glad I had superior firepower there. Besides, it’s not like it was hard to take someone like Clive down, even with the added Endgame pressure. He crashed and burned harder than his monologues.

Jewel: For me, the last.

That's all.

Natasha: From one hard question to another. Nobody's perfect, and everyone has things they wish they could change. What are your biggest regrets from your seasons?

Daisy: I wish I could go back in time and kill Cordelia again. I hated that bitch.

Ivy: [Still smiling] I wish I’d seen Zack coming.

Jewel: I have a lot, but the really big one is how I handled my second meeting with Dougie. I've been healing well and can walk around mostly okay now, but that has led to the most painful months of my life and I'm never going to be quite right again. And, you know, most people who get a knee replaced are old, the replacements wear out after a couple decades, so I'm going to have to do the whole thing again in my late thirties, and again in my late fifties. I fucked up and it's going to cause me pain for literally the rest of my life.

Adriana: I wish I thought about making people like me more. When you’re there, you kinda forget that, if you win, you will be scrutinized to hell and back for what you did no matter how you played. Even the popular winners of this show have haters, and not just because the haters are trying to be contrarians. Like, I considered that I should have talked to the camera more, just to show I had more to me than “goth chick who shoots people to death.” Ashley was smart to at least travel with people she could talk to so she could show more of herself off. That’s why people are willing to watch her do a live taping of Ashley Ex Machina in one of the other auditoriums here this weekend. I was alone, and I should have actually considered there to be a fourth wall of some kind for me to break. But then again, you guys abducted me when I was a vulnerable and angsty teenager, so it wasn’t like I had much to say to anyone who was watching at the time.

Daphne: I wish I’d gotten to meet Julie. We butted heads in school, she was a troublemaker, but I liked how she played watching the tapes. She was smart and mouthy and had her friends and feelings, but she got things done. I respect that. Also I wish I could have killed her before Ethan did. She shouldn’t have gotten to speak to him.

Abby: [Spends a few seconds thinking] I have to pick? [Thinks a bit more] ... Duct tape. [Laughs again]

Natasha: We've had a lot of particulars, but I'd like to take a moment to open the floor. Here's your chance to set the record straight. Tell the world why it's misjudged you. Share your side of the story, why you did what you did.

Ivy: Honestly, I feel like I’ve gotten more shit for my life after the show than what I did on it. People judge me for being in rehab and dating around and stupid things like that, when I’d bet that most of them have gone through something like those things or are close to someone who has. You only think it’s different because I’m famous, and you expect me to somehow be better than human just because I’ve got paparazzi following me around? Nah. As for the show, I did what I did because I wanted to live, and watching my friends screw around and kill each other over stupid stuff, I realized that nobody was going to have my back for that goal but me. That’s all there is to say about that.

Adriana: Uh, I did it because Survival of the Fittest is fucking scary and I didn’t want to die.

Yeah, I know. It’s weak, and I got reamed for that, but no one goes into SOTF with a concrete goal in mind or complete awareness of what consequences their actions will lead into. I thought I could just hide out for most of the game, but I ended up killing six people instead. At the very least, I tried to be indiscriminate and didn’t really go after anyone in particular, so that sort of worked in my favor. In fact, of my kills before Endgame, I only really was in danger of being hunted down by one person, that being Rochelle Devereaux, who wanted my head because I killed Bridget. But Tia took care of her for me, so that didn’t mean much in the end for my survival.

Abby: See… here’s what was part of my issue. I was a big SOTF fan prior to being on it, right? So I did a lot of stuff because, hell, some of my favorites tried it! But the big issue is… just because it looks cool doesn’t mean it works. I was just so starstruck that I wanted to be cool like Clayton, or something. So, since I was a dumb kid who wanted to be famous… [Laughs once more] Yeah, you can see where this is going.

Daisy: My sister just got murdered literally right off the bat, pun intended, and I’m like… what the fuck? Who does that? First of all, SOTF-TV crew, I hope you are taking notes, to not take siblings in the same season anymore because it fucks a lot of shit up at home, and also like… my sister? I wish I could say we had like a psychic link but, like… we didn’t. I did what I had to do for my sister, and after Cordelia died I just went on autopilot until I won.

Daphne: [As soon as she hears the question, her expression becomes more subdued—very melancholy, somewhat choked up by the end] I think that my side is one people want to hear, so I’ll just say it: yes, I was planning what happened. I did care, you know, I did care about him. But when you’re there, you need to decide, what am I doing? And I decided that I wanted to live. And I knew messing around with collars and that shit wouldn’t work with me. I prioritized. But I needed Ethan, to protect me, yes, but to keep me going, too. Because he trusted me and wanted to take care of me, I felt safer and secure, and I never lost sight of the end. And I wish it hadn’t ended like it did. I got caught up in it when I thought Parvati was dead, and I was so close to the end.

Jewel: This is really cool, hearing you all talk about this.

Natasha: Well, but what about you?

Jewel: [Chuckles] I mean, I think my game speaks for itself.

Natasha: Let's go ahead and move away from your seasons for a moment, at least potentially, and talk about you as people. We'll start off with a spicy one: what's a secret you normally wouldn't reveal? We're not moving on until everyone coughs up.

Daphne: Besides all that? Hah. Uh, that there was history with me and Claire. I didn’t trust her, so I threw her under the bus, but it was because she was really popular and good in school and I didn’t like that. So it was kind of pettiness that I did what I did. Well, partly, I still knew she was dangerous and didn’t want to risk having a third wheel.

Jewel: This is hard for me. I… Okay, here's one. I considered, just for a little, not letting Sarah leave. I thought I knew what was best for her and I thought I knew what was best for me and I didn't think her leaving served that. I was going to, to take her hostage and make her stay, but I didn't because she was my friend and I wouldn't have been able to follow through on any threats anyways. She had to make her own decisions, but that hurt, and I'm still not sure she picked right.

Adriana: Like, a secret during SOTF? Uh, I guess I considered offing myself just because I rolled my ankle and figured it would screw me over in the long run. You know, put myself down the way they kill horses at the Kentucky Derby when they break their legs so as to avoid anyone else killing me. But at least Sandstone left the ice machines working during the game, so that problem resolved itself after a few hours of self-care. After that, I didn’t entertain that idea again, so it was just momentary.

Daisy: I stole a shit ton of things while I was recovering. I was, like, in this hotel room and I just took everything I could get. So sorry, security agent, I’m the one who stole your wallet. It was really cute, though. I also stole, like, some memorabilia in photoshoots. I ran away with at least like four thousand dollars of fan stuff. I still have my uniform in my closet. I just like to keep it around. If I gave you a present during Christmas of that year, it’s probably from the set of TV.

Abby: Well, it wouldn’t be a secret if I just blurted it out to an auditorium, right? [Grin] Annnnyways… if you must know… [Leans into mic, stage whispers] Sometimes, when I’m feeling really tired and lazy… I drink milk directly from the carton. [Normal voice] I know, shocking, right? Didn’t say it had to be about SOTF.

Ivy: Hm… [Grins] If you’ve ever been in my bedroom, something you own is still there. [Laughs at a wolf whistle from someone in the audience]

Natasha: Thank you, thank you. I promise it won't end up as blackmail material. Now, why don't you tell me about how your lives have been changed by the game, and by winning.

Jewel: I never thought I was very cool before but now I do. It's like a dream come true except not really because I never dared dream it. I thought I'd have a boring normal nothing life and then I thought I'd die in SOTF but now here I am, and that's just incredible.

Daisy: I have money to live on my own and mind my own business. It’s nice. I can afford going to school again, probably get my Ph.D. soon. I was originally going into, like, carpentry, like to make furniture and all but I think that being in SOTF-TV really made me realize, like, “Oh, you are really lucky girl, you better use that,” so I went all-in and decided to major in psychology. I mean, I can still go back on that and move to Canada or something. It taught me to appreciate my luck, and my life in general.

Adriana: Well, I got to move out of my piece-of-shit dad’s house and start a music career in Hollywood, which is pretty cool. I know that hasn’t gone exactly as I hoped, but dammit, I’m making art for a living, so I’ll take it. I’ve also gotten to meet a lot of famous people, and not just SOTF winners. Like, I met Marilyn Manson at a restaurant one night, and I ran into one of the former child actors from Stranger Things while getting frozen yogurt. You know, the one with the weird teeth. So that’s been pretty cool.

Ivy: Well, I’ve already talked about rehab, and I probably wouldn’t have ended up there if I didn’t have to get surgery after what Zack did to me, so that’s one thing. Some people have cut ties with me too because they don’t agree with what I did, and I guess they’d rather I be dead. Overall, though, I feel like I’m doing better than I would be if I hadn’t been on the show. Trying to break into the business I’m in without a foothold is ridiculously hard, and I’ve seen so many people have their dreams crushed just because they can’t network or something like that. So really, it’s worked out well for me, and I wouldn’t change it.

Abby: Eh, things have been fine. Reality Check has been doing well, I’ve had a few movie deals, and I’ve been feeling good, you know? Like, I haven’t really been any miserable, I’m still standing, and really, everything’s great.

Daphne: Same ways as everyone who wins, I guess. As far as affecting me, personally, I think it’s been a hard thing to move past but I think it’s made me stronger. I know like every day I have was earned in blood, which is kind of cheesy but true. I do whatever I can do to get wherever I need to, because that’s why I’m alive and that’s how I want to keep living.

Natasha: A lot of you are artists of various sorts—models, musicians, painters. How have your experiences with SOTF shaped your artwork and self-expression?

Daphne: I dunno if it has. I don’t use a lot of red or whatever, or symbolic blood or whatever. I guess I appreciate the human form or something? But I do what I think is beautiful and my game wasn’t really beautiful. I guess if anything it made me feel like, “Well I was already in the wilderness for three days, I can’t look worse than that!” So I don’t get too nervous, I guess.

Adriana: Well, I think we all saw how Bloodstone turned out…

But no, in a sense, Bloodstone was very reactionary to having gone through SOTF and survived it, so my feelings weren’t too organized at the time and I wasn’t able to really tie it all into something without making it as chaotic as Season Sixty. Now that I’m two years older, I’ve had more time to really think and plan and work on my music, so I think Desert Fauna will be a real refinement of what I wanted to do with “Bloodstone.” I might even remix some of the stuff I did for Bloodstone in the future, so keep an eye out for those remixes.

Abby: I learned I’m funny. I screw up a lot, but it’s in a funny way. So that’s why I, like, do a lot of comedies and shit. You know, I always wanted to be an actress? And back at school, I was in the drama club. I’m always happy to perform, whether it’s for Reality Check or a new project! Sometimes it can be draining to think of new jokes for, like, scripts, but it’s also worth it to get a laugh out of people.

Ivy: I think SOTF probably got me typecast in the acting roles I get, but what can you do? Someday I’ll do something indie and artsy and they’ll let me be completely naked like Hollywood won’t. [Laughs] Outside of that, I don’t think it’s too much of an influence. I’m not out here modeling “The Blood Of My Enemies” fall collection or anything.

Jewel: I haven't painted or drawn anything since I won. Not one thing. First my tendons were all fucked up, and then I've just had too much other stuff to do. But, it's not all bad. I've realized that I actually really like expressing myself in writing. I never had a Twitter until I won, and now it always feels like I can't say enough. It's cool. I feel like I'm good at something I didn't know I'd be good at.

Daisy: I wasn’t the artistic child but I earned a new… how do you say it? Appreciation? [Pauses for a second, tugging her shirt] Yeah, appreciation for graphic designers. Thank god they exist, I would be making my shirts on Paint or something. There’s nothing better than tipping them more money than they asked, it looks like you gave a kid a Christmas present.

Natasha: Now that you're well-known, I'm sure you've had a lot of encounters with fans. What's been the most interesting?

Abby: Mmm, see, this is where I tell you guys about the vomit guy. [Smiles, looking back] Okay, so, this was around the time I was first doing the whole con circuit thing. The first few cons, okay, hectic, but okay. So I’m sitting at a booth after a panel, right? Signing shit. Then, this one guy comes up. He looks about… mid-twenties, I’m guessing. Big, kinda pudgy white guy. And I was, like, 17. So he says hi, I say hi back, all that good fan interaction. We talk for a bit, he asks me seemingly normal questions, until it slips out. So, you know how I vomited at one point? And how that bit was used as a gif or something? Yeah, he tells me that’s his favorite. I kind of laugh a bit, because I assume he thinks it’s funny. He says, “I think it’s cute.” Let that sink in, folks. I kind of laughed it off some more, until I realized what he just up and told me when I brought it up later to someone else. [Laughs a bit] See… this is an example of what I meant by “creepers and weirdos.” Guys, generally white, generally straight, generally older, will tell you skeevy-ass shit you never wanted to hear. Let that be another life lesson from Abby today. [Straightens herself out] Now, for something less creepy: I love seeing all the memes you guys have come up with for me. Some of them are—[Waves hand]—eh, but others are hilarious shit. Earlier today I saw this one that had the gif of me eating a sandwich, you know that one? And the caption was something like “TFW you’re sitting through a boring lecture but the professor lets you bring food.” [A-OK sign, smiling again] Top notch meme. Relatable, too.

Adriana: Oh, I had a fan at an album signing who revealed he got the image of me pointing my TEC-9 at Clive tattooed on his pec. His chest pec, that is. [Laughs] It was so flattering I made sure to put that on my Instagram. I’m always excited to see fanart or crazy things like that, so it was very welcome.

Ivy: Ooh, I have some groupie stories I could tell you. I won’t, but I could. Honestly, the best encounters I’ve had are the really lowkey ones, like someone comes up to me in a restaurant or whatever and just wants to get an autograph for their friend, something like that. I’ve gotten threats too, of course, but security takes care of that, and it’s really pretty samey. Some girl from Florida did mail me a pair of her panties once, though. That was memorable. And no, I didn’t keep them.

Jewel: The weirdest thing for me is that people are, like, constantly mistaking me for a cosplayer. I mean, obviously when I'm here on the stage or whatever they know who I am, but it seems like everyone expects me to be weird and perfect and inhuman but I'm not that. I actually dressed up as someone else yesterday just for fun and almost nobody figured out who I was—I mean, they got the costume, just not that it was me in it. For one big standout, uh, I don't really have one besides reading really crazy fanfic. This is all pretty new to me still. I'm sure in a year or two I'll have all sorts of stuff to say about dudes throwing their underwear at me or whatever.

Daisy: So, preface: I went to college and people forgot about me. I mean, the niche fans were like, “oooh, queen of academics,” which was nice, but the mainstream population didn’t remember me, so that was… that. I was going to get coffee one morning, and it was the last day in the semester, I just did a podcast the night before so I was tired as hell. So, I order my coffee from the barista, I think it was a pumpkin spice latte, and I say my name to her. She misspelled it D-E-E-S-I-E. I think she had a rough night too, but anyways, she didn’t recognize me. When my drink was done, I went to get it and the girl looked at me and was like, “Did we go to high school together?” and oh gosh that was awkward. I made it worse by saying “I would have probably killed you, haha.” She, like… took it as a threat? It was… that. I was like, “No, no, no need to call security I’m Daisy Robinson, you know Season Twenty?” and she did recognize me so I signed her an autograph and gave her like $20 for not getting me arrested. That was so weird.


Daphne: A lot of my fan interactions are pretty negative, typically. I think the one that kind of stood out was this really quiet girl who came to me once and told me I was an inspiration. Which is kind of scary because I don’t want to be making people kill people or anything, like not in real life. But she said she had been in a bad relationship and she’d realized she didn’t need him in her life and got out and got better, and that was kind of nice. I didn’t expect to be a positive role model for empowerment but I like that I did do that.

Natasha: What plans do you have for the future? The game is the end of so many stories, but for you women it's just the beginning. So what are the next chapters you're all looking forwards to?

Daphne: Well, just keep going at what I do. I’ve got my first couture showing soon, and I’m really excited about it. I don’t think I really want to settle down, have a family, all that crap. I just don’t. My career and my own life are plenty for me.

Adriana: I don’t know if you can read my shirt, but I’m getting close to releasing my next album. [Stands up and moves her jacket aside to show off her shirt] It’s called Desert Fauna and it drops this spring. I’m working with promoters to do some tours at smaller, more independent clubs, so check out my website for possible tour dates, and hopefully I’ll see all of you at a future show.

Ivy: I just want to keep building up my career, moving on to bigger and better things. I joked about fashion lines, but I’ve been thinking about getting into designing as well as modeling, so we’ll see where that goes. I’ve had some people suggest I branch out into music, but I sing like a dead cat, so probably not.

Daisy: I said Ph.D. earlier, but I’ll probably continue writing my book—which is unrelated to SOTF-TV, so don’t get your hopes up for an official fanfiction—and possibly become a teacher. I don’t know. As long as the royalties keep rolling in, I’m free to do whatever I want.

Abby: Weeeeell… I would tell you, but I’m not supposed to. All I can say is, big secret things are gonna happen soon, and I’m excited for it. [Exaggerated wink]

Jewel: I actually have some really really really exciting stuff lined up but I'm not supposed to talk about it yet either. I've been doing some advisory work for SOTF and I've also been working on this one project that, well, I just shouldn't talk about. But you'll hear about it really soon, I promise. On a personal note, I, uh, I turned eighteen two days ago and my leg's doing a lot better and I'm not medicated all the time anymore, so maybe it's time to install Tinder or something and find a date? I don't know.

Ivy: You can just give me your number instead of bothering with dating apps. [A few scattered whistles from the crowd]

Natasha: And, to close us out, I'd like you to think about all those contestants yet to come. What advice would you like to offer them, especially the young women who may soon find themselves in the same position you once occupied?

Daisy: Have fun. You are going to die or be hated, at least do it while having fun.

Ivy: At some point, you’re going to only have yourself to rely on, and the sooner you come to terms with that, the better. I spent too long with a group that wasn’t going to last, and it cost me in a few ways. You’ve got to assume that nobody else is going to have your back, and be ready to look out for yourself.

Abby: Aside from what I’ve already said… the best advice I can give you is this: go watch Thirty-Nine. Watch me closely. Realize that I’m only here because for some reason, something, up above—[Points upwards for effect]—wanted me to live. Now take notes on what not to do.

Adriana: I guess it’s hard to reflect on what your actions will do, but try to have some foresight if you can take the time to think. For me, killing Bridget was impulsive and stupid and I nearly got killed by Ivan because of that. But killing Danny cost me nothing because I had the time to realize that he was no threat at that point in the game and that killing him would mean nothing for everyone left. You may not get as much time to plan and think as you’d hope in SOTF, but when you have those moments, take advantage of them. They can save your life.

Jewel: You're valuable. You're worthwhile. Yes, you. You might not think you're someone special enough to win, but you're wrong. Anyone can do it. Absolutely anyone. Believe in yourself, care about yourself, and be true to yourself. Don't let anyone else's opinions drag you down or make you doubt.

Daphne: I think Karen Ruiz, who I’m a fan of, said it somewhere, in a post-game, that I really agree with. Figure out what you want to do. If you’re okay with dying for some other reason, by all means. But if you want to live and have your own future, figure that out early and don’t mix up your goals.

Natasha: Thank you all for coming, and thank you in the audience for being here too. I’m sure we’ll be seeing more of you around the con—remember, if you’re going to ask for autographs, no talking about vomit. Let’s give these ladies a hand, one more time.

[Applause]